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I am currently reading surviving an affair by Dr. Willard...first couple of pages they go into a story about an affair and he ends the paragraph by saying that most marriages face infidelity and that given the right circumstances almost anyone would have an affair. Did I chose the right book to read? WTF.

I am currently reading surviving an affair by Dr. Willard...first couple of pages they go into a story about an affair and he ends the paragraph by saying that most marriages face infidelity and that given the right circumstances almost anyone would have an affair. Did I chose the right book to read? WTF.

The often recommended "Not Just Friends" really has the same message, that anyone is capable of having an affair. Not Just Friends uses this as a springboard to provide advice on how to help protect your marriage and safeguard yourself from getting into an affair. It was all sound advice, you can't safeguard another person.

I'd be interested to hear where Dr. Willard takes his statement. But on its face, no, that statement doesn't bother me as a BH. I've always known I was capable of having an affair and was amazed at how many of the behaviors I was already modeling from the NJF book to keep myself out of making a poor choice that might lead to a slippery slope.

Now, I don't know about "most marriages face infidelity". I suppose all marriages face the prospect of infidelity, but many make better individual choices.

I think the logic is many marriages (or most) face an opportunity for infidelity to become part of the marriage.

There are people who will walk away. Not every one succumbs.

I remember starting a new job. Loved this job. Was so excited to get it. Third week in - this jerk from another department sees me (after having met me only 2-3 times) and says “hey you were in my dream last night. We were having wild and crazy sex”.

He was married. I was married. He was looking for an opportunity.

I never spoke to him again.

*None of this applies to a WS that seeks out an affair.*

I think circumstances matter to some degree but ultimately the WS chooses to cross the boundary. The repair is in ensuring the WS will not make that decision again.

I think that those of us that have not been directly impacted by infidelity often have untested boundaries. That if we (really, me specifically, y'all might have had the worlds most solid boundaries) had been presented with the right opportunity, our boundaries may have failed. I think that after you have experienced it, you develop more awareness to the issue, and if you follow the advice around here and in many books, you establish solid boundaries that cannot be overcome by any combination of stress, temptation, or inebriation.

I do believe I would have been capable of similar actions as my WS, I just wasn't presented with the same opportunities or pressures.

Not familiar with the book, but I am very familiar with that fallacious line of reasoning. Essentially, what he is saying is that everyone has the capacity to have an affair, and strictly speaking, if you have genitals, then yes. But, let's say you are faced with a moral dilemma. This line of reasoning suggests that given the right circumstances, most everyone would cave. Yet history is rife with examples of people who would not, even at great personal cost, betray their internal code.

What a cheater or shitty MC means by that first line is since we are all equally capable of adultery, then it is simply a human condition. And if its simply a human condition, arent we all really victims here? And if we are all really victims here, can anyone really be considered guilty if all they did was succumb to some human condition that was essentially out of their control? And doesn't this sound curiously, like a disability. And if it is in fact a disability, arent we, the BS'S the real assholes here?

Did I get that right?

...he ends the paragraph by saying that most marriages face infidelity and that given the right circumstances almost anyone would have an affair. Did I chose the right book to read? WTF.

Willard Harley is a total quack, who is way deep into the "unmet needs" fallacy. You'd be better off with Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. She does a great job of showing what new boundaries should look like. See if you can get your money back on the other one.

I literally believed the book when it said this. Made me feel okay for a second. Made me just feel like okay well the opportunity hasn't just presented itself to me so that's why I never cheated. But literally for a second because then I was like wtf. No. I don't believe it for a second. I also got annoyed by the book because it says to tell everybody in y'all's lives about it. The infidelity I mean. And what really was annoying was as it said any children over the age of seven should be told. Like wtf, I disagree.

I'm with JustSomeGuy...

What a cheater or shitty MC means by that first line is since we are all equally capable of adultery, then it is simply a human condition. And if its simply a human condition, arent we all really victims here? And if we are all really victims here, can anyone really be considered guilty if all they did was succumb to some human condition that was essentially out of their control

I had several opportunities to have a PA during my M... never once did I accept it.

And you can take JustSomeGuy's reasoning and insert any other moral dilemma and still come up with the same result - that not everyone will take the moral low road (e.g., if we are all equally capable of murder or robbery or rape, then it's simply a human condition....)

Throw the book in the trash.

I'm a fan of Not Just Friends. My infidelity "must read" list would be:

how to help your spouse heal

not just friends

living & loving after betrayal (Stosne)

The Body keeps the score (Van der Kolk)

Resilient (Rick Hanson)

any/all of Brene Brown

Journey from Abandonment to Healing (Susan Anderson)

Only the 1st three are specific to infidelity, but the non-infidelity books helped me a ton in healing.

I have a VERY large stack of infidelity books (on top of those I got via audiobook or from my library), and I can't think of any that gave me the traction I got from that above list.

Great post by Justsomeguy

It is like saying monogamy is not natural. But of course it is said by people who entered in to a monogamous relationship and now want to have their cake and eat it, too.

I have seen people post about this on SI in the past and it always annoys me. Not everyone will cheat. I was in a relationship that was technically "dead bedroom". We had sex about once every 6-8 weeks. It was a major problem for me that I talked to him about repeatedly. It made me feel lonely and sad and sexually frustrated. I get attention from men and could easily have had an affair or hookup if I wanted to. I could never. It is one of the most cowardly things in my view.

I could do other shitty things in my life, I am not a perfect human. But I cannot cheat. I cannot betray those that I love. I just cannot.

Thank you to all. I will look into the other books suggested and have heard many times to read not just friends so I will start with that.

Stay away from that Jackass and his family cottage industry he has built to finance his kids futures.

He is a major rugsweeper and victim blamer.

Below is the 1 star review I gave his book on Amazon.

There are some helpful tools and techniques in this book to help a married couple communicate and interact better. However, to a betrayed spouse this guy sounds like a major rug sweeper and puts very little, if any, emphasis on full disclosure. For a counselor with as much experience as he boasts, he appears terribly ignorant of infidelity trauma. You can tell because there is not one shred of instruction addressing healing for the betrayed spouse. Infidelity is spousal abuse and this author treats it like a mistake or poor judgment. This is inexcusable IMO. People get PTSD from being betrayed. Also I really question his definition of love. He seems to think love is just a feeling and says so repeatedly. His idea of love appears to be merely attraction. So this book instructs you how to feel attracted to your spouse and be attracted by them. Feelings appear to be his highest virtue. To hell with choosing to do what is right regardless of personal cost. Just make those love bank deposits and your soul’s assassin will soon feel attracted toward you. Lucky you, that they now bestow on you their rediscovered favor, as their fallback plan B, when they are dumped by their lover/soulmate and every other option available has failed and you are their very last choice (and you have a wallet). He literally uses a couple like this as his best example in the book. Just flush your self respect along with your shredded dignity and consider yourself fortunate to be allowed back in their life. And don’t forget that you are as much to blame for this crap sandwich as your betrayer. Despite saying once that the cheater is responsible for the betrayal, he makes several Freudian slips revealing what he really believes - that the betrayed bears the same responsibility as the cheater. Ignore the fact that a spouse with a shred of integrity has the courage to confront their problems with their spouse or choose to divorce. And don’t forget you are supposed to just ignore those gross mind movies of their adulterous activities in your own house and even in your own bed! And just run away from those environmental triggers. Well, what does one do, pray tell, when the wayward spouse’s face is the environmental trigger? This clown tells you to ignore what is in the past because you cannot do anything about it. If he knew anything about trauma he would know that it is NOT in the past. You experience it EVERY DAY.

Couples without trauma may benefit from this book, but if you have experienced the fallout of adultery, seek the guidance of one who really knows what this sack of crap does to a human being. Not someone who is more concerned with their five-years-later, still-together-numbers. This stuff lasts a lifetime. You need professional help.

And I agree that anyone is capable of any heinous act. I understand (to the degree one is able) the total depravity of man. We are capable. We are fallen. It does not mean we will, nor does it provide excuse of those who do. And for a book titled Surviving Infidelity, I cannot understand how this author thinks that statement will somehow help someone survive infidelity.

[This message edited by CuriousObserver at 11:49 AM, July 29th (Thursday)]

I have seen people post about this on SI in the past and it always annoys me. Not everyone will cheat. I was in a relationship that was technically "dead bedroom". We had sex about once every 6-8 weeks. It was a major problem for me that I talked to him about repeatedly. It made me feel lonely and sad and sexually frustrated. I get attention from men and could easily have had an affair or hookup if I wanted to. I could never. It is one of the most cowardly things in my view.

Another example of someone who is supposedly "capable" and has "cause", but decides that honesty, integrity, honoring agreements, etc., are higher value principles. As someone else said, of course anyone with free will and genitals is capable of an affair, but ultimately it's an act of selfishness, it's disloyal, it's contrary to a functioning society and functional relationships. I see countless betrayed, myself included, who had opportunity and maybe even periods of unhappiness in their marriages. But they didn't make the choice of betrayal.

It's the failure to focus on the choices and the failure of ETHICS that bothers me. As a betrayed spouse I need to know my wayward criticized their own decision making, criticized their own ethics, and decided to aim higher. Any book or MC that rugsweeps past this ethical adjustment is short circuiting the opportunity the wayward has to actually do something to help the betrayed feel safer. This of course also hurts the wayward who wants to change and wants to R, they're natural desire to want to rugsweep is reinforced by bad MC and bad advise books.

This takes me back to something that happened in the late 90’s. My kids were under 10, my W was a SAHM. I was out of town on a business trip. I was at the hotel bar and got a solid proposition. We were all drinking but I wasn’t drunk.

I excused myself to the bathroom and remember standing looking in the mirror, this was a fork in the road. The little devil on my shoulder started justifying how I deserved a ONS. My W was so caught up in raising the kids I was on the back burner, we were in a dead bedroom season of our M. She will never know. But, then I said to myself (the angel on my shoulder) my W and kids are more than that to me, this season shall pass and how could I ever look my family in the eye.

I went back in the bar told everyone good night and went to my room. I remember how I couldn’t wait to get home and see my family. I told my W what happened right away.

After Dday I really thought back to that fork in the road, how grateful I was that I walked away. The justifications are just lies we tell ourselves.