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Ok so I have a few questions.....

I am currently 21 months out from 2nd dday. My WH has had many stumbles along the way but here we are. He definitely wants to try to change all the things that lead him to cheat but change is hard and I think finding that path is difficult for a lot of people. I am finding all of this so hard still. Sometimes things seem to be going well and I am finding that I am spiraling less but they seem harder to get through when they do hit.

I am just wondering what this point was like for most people? I know, I know...everybody goes through this in their own way but I am just wondering what this looked like for most.

Also, with DDay #1, I had thought he was doing enough to battle his issues but looking back I think I had rose coloured glasses on. We had a 6 month old baby and I think I just needed the part with him to be ok so I was willing to accept any work he put in as enough. Clearly it wasn't. My question here is, how does anyone know that they have done enough to not cheat? How do I know that as the betrayed? He heavily compartmentalized and minimized so he could cheat and not think about it when he was with us and his "normal" life.

As for myself, when does it go from processing to rumination when you are thinking/dealing with the cheating? As I have read many times that this could take years to get through, I suppose that is a lot of thinking about things and how they happened. I am just wondering when does it enter into unhealthy territory.

How many of you have forgiven your wayward spouses and what does that look like for you?

And last but not least, trust. I am having a hard time with this one. He didn't change any of his behaviour or anything during the cheating so it feels almost impossible to trust myself to notice any signs that it could happen again. This leads me to always feel like I need to be aware or scanning for anything that doesn't seem right to see if it's still happening. Because there was 12 years inbetween the two cheating episodes, I don't feel like time without cheating will help either. So how do you actually build trust that is lasting with a history of multiple cheating? I have read many times that it changes from a blind trust...but isn't all trust a blind trust? You can never fully know what another person is doing when they are alone.

how does anyone know that they have done enough to not cheat? How do I know that as the betrayed?

I don't know that my W won't cheat again, though I would and have bet a lot that she won't.

I'm very confident, however, that I'll be devastated if she does, and that I survive and thrive.

when does it go from processing to rumination when you are thinking/dealing with the cheating?

For me, it was when I was thinking about anger. When I ruminate, I eventually remember to ask myself, 'What am I feeling?' Getting to feelings stops the rumination.

How many of you have forgiven your wayward spouses and what does that look like for you?

I have - for me it's that I've given up all desire to see my W punished for her A.

So how do you actually build trust that is lasting with a history of multiple cheating? I have read many times that it changes from a blind trust...but isn't all trust a blind trust?

I think it took thousands of consecutive small trust-building actions from my W and a lot of work in therapy that made me give her my trust again. That's with one A.

But you choose if an when to give your trust. What do you want your WS to do to earn it back?

Good questions. I hope you find the answers you need.

Hi there.

I'm 9 years out of DD1 and 8 years out of DDays 2/3 [same LTAP].

how does anyone know that they have done enough to not cheat? How do I know that as the betrayed?

You don't know. But like sisoon says - I'm very confident, however, that I'll be devastated if he (in my case) does, and that I survive and thrive.

when does it go from processing to rumination when you are thinking/dealing with the cheating?

For me, this took years, but little by little, it stopped overshadowing every thought, every waking moment. Over time, I started experiencing glimmers of hope and joy. I chose [and some days were/are easier than others] to dance in the light than wallow in the dark.

How many of you have forgiven your wayward spouses and what does that look like for you?

One day, around year 4-5 we were dancing together at a party, and out of nowhere a wave of forgiveness washed over me. It took me a few days to process this and accept it. It took me a few more days to tell WH.

So how do you actually build trust that is lasting with a history of multiple cheating?

For WH - proven behavior over time

For me - to paraphrase what sisoon says above - I trust that I'll survive and thrive

I hope this helps.

***edited to get quotes in the right places***

[This message edited by Chaos at 4:41 PM, Friday, May 29th]

TryingToSurvive44

Because there was 12 years inbetween the two cheating episodes, I don't feel like time without cheating will help either.

I think that is such a hard part of trust after betrayal especially when there has been more than one DDay or later information changes the picture as time passing on its own does not necessarily feel like proof anymore because you already know that things can be hidden inside ordinary life. I also relate to what you said about not trusting yourself to notice signs as that is one of the most destabilising parts for me too - it is not only "can I trust him?" but also "can I trust my own reading of reality?"

but isn't all trust a blind trust? You can never fully know what another person is doing when they are alone.

I am slowly starting to see trust differently now - not as blind trust but as trust in patterns/ consistency/ openness/ accountability and also trust in myself that if something feels wrong I will not ignore myself again and I do not know if that is the full answer but it feels different from trying to recreate the kind of trust I had before...

Hey TryingToSurvive44 -

So how do you actually build trust that is lasting with a history of multiple cheating?

Unfortunately, you have seen the signs twice.

The first time, you chose family over your pain, put your head down and muscled through.

This time, make it all about you.

You get to pick the boundaries you need, you get to enforce them.

Heck, you don't owe anyone to stay, especially since your WS didn't change ANYTHING after the first time.

As for the M, it is up to your husband to show change and prove change.

As for trust, you really do know what the signs are, what the lies sound like.

So now, you only trust you about moving forward or not.

If WS earns some back, it will take a lot of consistent ACTIONS (not words).

As for trying to survive this, you already know how tough you are by making this far and surviving the pain before.

As for myself, when does it go from processing to rumination when you are thinking/dealing with the cheating?

Your brain does an endless loop as part of defending itself, it is trying to find a pain free path through this. But there isn't a pain free path, you just have to tackle those emotions as they happen -- with you giving yourself ALL the room you need, all the time you need to process them.

It took me two years to process most of it, three years before I started to really be able to drive my emotions instead of reacting to them. It took practice, questioning the thoughts, and then understanding them. Your brain is on your side, it just doesn't know when to quit (fight or flight mode).

Feel the sadness, feel the pain, feel the anger and then let them go when you process each enough.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 6:20 PM, Friday, May 29th]